Sadness does not exist

Discussion in 'Your Contemplations, Insights and Ponderings' started by Em1, Feb 6, 2016.

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  1. Em1

    Em1 Active Member

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    This idea came up as I was free form writing tonight... "Sadness does not exist - merely loss. Loss and fear can only exist inside but presence is connection to outside."

    Is sadness always a loss of something? It is the reality that what we want and our actual existence aren't the same. Can we connect to something outside of ourselves directly with feelings of loss/sadness or fear? When we show empathy towards others it's relating to someone else's feelings... but it isn't a direct connection of those feelings. Connection comes from recognizing that we have a shared experience (which is a different emotion than fear or sadness).

    I'm not quite sure how it all ties together yet...
     
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  2. Joanna

    Joanna Active Member

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    Your ideas are very apropos to me right now, @Em1 , as I'm working with what a connection with someone really means, what is is. In the absurd way my world seems to work, someone who I once blamed for ripping my heart out and stomping all over it and with whom I have not maintained a friendship, he's been lighting up my phone for the last week because he had found "the perfect girl" who has now left him after two years of paradise and bliss. He is in utter agony over this unexpected breakup.

    Anyway, it has all been an extraordinary exercise for me in the sense that I've been given the chance to inwardly process latent anger and pain as the things he is crying about are the exact things that I once believed I experienced by and at his hand. I can now see and own my responsibility and errors in the situation. But most interesting of all is that although I do not quite feel a connection with nor an affinity for him, I yet am able to provide some sort of comfort to him, just by my words and attention. That is fascinating. I am extending love even though I don't exactly feel love. Because I don't feel a connection with him, it seems that he is, as you say, outside of me, but yet my actions say that he is not outside of me; he is not separate, because I know what he feels. Thus I am able to acknowledge and hold this man's suffering, because it is essentially my suffering, the same suffering of the entire human race; all suffering is one suffering.

    When we connect with someone emotionally, anything is possible, including healing and comfort where previously that might have seemed wholly impossible.

    My life is blowing my mind right now. Thank you for the opportunity to explore this with you. Your thoughts welcome! :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2016
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  3. Harry

    Harry Active Member

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    I feel the biggest connection we shud establish is with ourselves. If we establish a very powerful and authentic connection with ourselves , then we can establish a deeper connection with anyone free of any mental filters which we had developed in due course of time. Becos at the end of the day, we are all one.

    oh! @Joanna , u are so great. Few are the people like u in this world , inspite of being emotionally traumatized by situation, u are accomodative to that person. And look at that , that person came to u.
    I have 2 questions--

    1] I lived with a person who is my friend . the friendship went soothingly, warmly, but suddenly something happened due to which our friendship was broken . Then , I enter into friendship with another person and suddenly again my friendship with that friend is also broken . But, now I switched on to the previous friend who consoled me and my friendship with that friend ignited once again.
    What's the theme running here and I had seen this theme running in many people. Infact, I also did that in the past.
    Why is that when we return to the people when a person whom we have relationship in the current secenario dumps up and we go to the previous person who once dumped us? It happens quite a frequently in many scenarios.
    What do I think abt this ?
    The basic is that human mind works on the principle of -what's the most attarctive or burdening thing for him in that moment [not to be confused with the present now]. So, currently someone is dumping u, u will have emotional turmoil which will say to sign out from that relationship . But on the contrary in the previous relationship , though the former person had dumped u , u will go to him becos u had forgotten or the burden felt by the current scenario is much more than the former in the current moment.
    I see a bias running here in this situation with mind fail to see thru the situation completely. It's just like the ego . When we see a thing like 1 million dollar, we tend to forget all our suffering at one shot in that moment because the ego craves for that thing. Like wise in the scenario presented above , same thing happens . We ae overpowered by a much emotionally strong thing and hence we seek escape from it and search safe sanctuary which in this case might be previous realtionship.
    What are ur thoughts regarding such situations?
     
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  4. Joanna

    Joanna Active Member

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    This is undoubtedly true. And someday I will have that. I'm still a work in progress.

    I'm not great. I think perhaps I feel a layer of guilt for my part, and that if I help in a peaceful way, I can erase some karma. Anyway, it's just what's arising for me!

    My idea is that all of us run the same theme or conflict until it's dissolved. So the players change but the conflict remains, because it exists in the mind, and not 'out there'. We act out the same scene with different people all the time. The 'time factor'...we start out with people (usually!) who give us something we like. There is something that is pleasurable that attracts us. But the real attraction is happening on a spirit level, the interaction of the physical level is just the disguise. So...when you run into the real issue that you need to work on that attracted you to your friend in the first place, if you can't work on it (too unfamiliar, uncomfortable), you will run away to whatever is familiar and comfortable. Away from the first friend, you forgot the issue and only see the pleasurable friend...so on an so forth. This is the ebb and flow of relationships. The spirit seeks its compliment in another spirit, so that growth can happen. We all come together and fall apart from each other all the time. Just in some relationships, the ebb and flow is more dramatic!

    I'm beginning to understand deeply that my conflicts with people are really just unexplored areas of myself. Tonight I had a huge breakthrough... through a big conflict that upset me greatly I have suddenly seen that one of my very real problems is that I have an extremely low tolerance or threshold regarding gratification. Like a child, I expect instant gratification...instant being anywhere up to the point I can't handle the delay any longer. In my immature insistence on clarity, I place demands for information and adherence to my emotional temperament. I believed I was entitled to communication when I wanted it, how I wanted it. Until tonight, I had zero idea that my problem is not with ambiguous people, but with my own personality regarding frustration. I find it extremely difficult to tolerate frustration, due to the great discomfort, lack of control, uncertainty. When I realized that tonight, suddenly, my whole life makes sense. (Don't you love these moments!?) Now that I know...I can consciously lean into frustration and not fear it. I think I have turned a corner...this is good...I've been due for an upgrade.

    I don't know if I've answered your question fully. I'm hyped up on caffeine and junk food and mad at myself for not realizing sooner what I have realized, because then I could have saved myself and other person the trouble of creating the situation that was necessary in order for me to learn the lesson which would have prevented it. Ha!

    Stay tuned. Who knows what will be going on with me next week (or even the next hour).
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  5. Harry

    Harry Active Member

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    A feeling of fear really enroached my hara when I read this line and that fear was -fear was loosing u.
    why is that Americans value dogs, cats more than humans, I mean u have dogs in every house, u keep dogs like a family member , a king. Infact, u have movies dedicated to dogs. Do Americans have connections with dog -connection of love.
    Hey! do u feel connected with ur dog ? When I was thinking of having a dog- all sorts of questions came across my mind like taking care, taking him for shitting outside and I frankly said that I can't handle that resposbility and call it a quiet and not to forget the release of suppressed energy.
    Do u know why we eat junk food because it makes us feel good just like cocaine and caffeine whenver I take it I suffer from eructation and so I don't take it. I see caffeine as mild for of meth and so I don't take it. Joana , don't u have any hobby-go for it. I think Grand Canyon is in Arizona and also Vegas .
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
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  6. Joanna

    Joanna Active Member

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    @Harry , I cannot speak for anybody but myself, but yes, I bond deeply with my dogs. I have a new puppy that is just over a year now, but it is not the same as with my old dog that I had for 15 years! The love is different with a puppy, but I am certain with time Steve and I will come to have as marvelous a relationship as Larry and I did. There is a responsibility but it's a joy and a privilege most of the time, a small price for unconditional love, although I know it's not really unconditional love but just devotion to the the source of tasty snacks.

    Yes junk food and caffeine are drugs. But you cannot expect me to get through this life entirely without any crutches! That, Sir, would be asking too much. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  7. Saraswati

    Saraswati Active Member

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    @Em1: I would say sadness comes from the perception of loss. When a part of self is projected and identified with an object and then the object is gone the loss is that we feel a part of our own self is gone. It's not true. But we do tend to feel that way because the feelings become so entangled with the object. The grieving process is the process of reintegrating the feeling, withdrawing the feeling from the object and realizing the source was always self.

    For instance, this was brought sharply into mind for me after I lost my dog of 14 years. I had so much sadness and feeling of loss. However, when I got the dog I have now I came to realize that the love I felt is still there, it's just now projected onto the dog I have now. The love feels the same. Or course the particulars or details are different, he is a different dog. But the love is the same. Had I kept that love contained within the image of my last dog I would not be able to allow it to continue to flow in my life thus blocking myself from my own feelings.

    We cannot ever truly know what someone else feels but we can relate to how we felt in similar situations and know that it was hard for us. But we don't even really know perhaps what someone else needs to help them through. It's really hard to accept someone else without projecting our own stuff onto them. We can listen and try to understand, but more and more I realize I can't ever know what it's really like to be in another persons shoes. I can only see when someone is suffering and try to be there for them.
     
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  8. Harry

    Harry Active Member

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    What abt people who had self actualized or attained enligtenment when mind is like a clean slate with every moment u re dying and reborn?
     
  9. Harry

    Harry Active Member

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    @Saraswati
    I put forth a question in this very thread abt a couple in which the women is filled with fear and other partner with anger. When asked they say , they are having an awesome relationship. And I asked is it possible to have an awesome relationship without awareness-u said yes .
    But I feel , if u are not having a loving relationship with ur true self , then u are bound to have imbalance/suppressed emotions which u will projet on others like anger or will try to meet ur unmet needs which is illusionary. So, I am constantly being pre -oocupied withthe thought of being possesive or being control of my partner or submissive to my partner. Under such circumstances is it possible to feel God/sense of being via ur partner. The partners I talked above are telling that their relationship is awesome only becos their exist co-dependeny in their relationship. One is filled with anger giving an impression of being aggressive and dominant and hence a a protector/guardian which will be absolutely in resonance with the other partner filled with anger. Relationship is a dynamic process and it has to be constantly tweaked by both partners or in any other relationship which is not happening in above relationship or most of any other realtionship resulting in stagnancy in relationship.
    And people use stupid arguments like -People who had married or nor married -result is the same but in reality I feel they fail to see the fundamental part that love is the essence of ur being and if u miss , u will be imbalanced or create suppressed emotions in various aspects of life.
    I am asking so many questions to u. Hope u don't mind.
     
  10. Em1

    Em1 Active Member

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    The thing that's so interesting is that we have to do all these things to have that connection:
    1. Have a past experience of an emotion
    2. Find a parallel in someone else's experience.
    3. Share it with that person
    4. Have that person recognize and share it with you

    In that sense, connection is just a form of understanding. That's not an emotion, though - it's an experience. Your example explains it well - you relate to your ex-friend whether you give support or not. That's how we can feel empathy towards a stranger or someone who we're unsure about (like an ex) because all we are doing is relating to their experience (thus creating a new shared experience). Support is a choice, though. It's listening or offering advice... It's giving someone something they need.

    Lately I've been taking it a step deeper... When we're seeking parallels to others' emotional experiences, could we be missing out on other connections to the outside world (or within)? If I'm (hypothetically) feeling extreme fear, anxiety, or loss I'm likely going to seek support from others (to help process the experience and to help calm myself). For me, what I'm really seeking out in those moments is understanding. Lately I've been really sensitive to being midunderstood, though... Which is funny given that every experience we have is unique and will never be exactly understood the same way by anyone else.

    I like how @Saraswati said it - it's "the process of reintegrating the feeling, withdrawing the feeling from the object and realizing the source was always self." Maybe we're just always projecting certain feelings onto others. But, if we need others (or their experiences) to help process through our own emotions what are we not understanding about ourselves?
     
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  11. Em1

    Em1 Active Member

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    This might be a better way of explaining it... If I like pistachio ice cream and I find out you like pistachio ice cream, we might spend time talking about ice cream and going out for ice cream. Over time, we'd have shared experiences around ice cream. But, what if my doctor said I couldn't eat ice cream anymore? Would we still be friends? Maybe - it would depend what else we could talk about or do together. Maybe we just talk about how we used to go out for ice cream.

    Instead of ice cream lets say sadness. If I'm sad and you say you understand my sadness, we'll have a connection because of that sadness. I might start calling you when I feel sad because I know you'll understand. But once the sadness is gone (like the ice cream), what's left? If we can share a lot of emotions, are we just friends because of that "palate"? If you take away all of that conscious understanding and emotional support, what's left? Whats a layer deeper behind it all?
     
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  12. Joanna

    Joanna Active Member

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    These are really good questions. For me, real friendship is a kind of fusion on both an intellectual and emotional level. And the deeper layer is the unconscious purpose for which the friendship is formed, and perhaps later dissolved. The more the friendship is experienced consciously regarding how the relationship makes you feel, what it brings up in you, the more it is realized that the ice cream or sadness, or whatever is the obvious catalyst/shared interest, is really just the smoke screen or cover story for what's really going on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  13. Shiv

    Shiv Active Member

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    When we relate to others through friendships and relationships we are essentially always relating through shared experiences. Which is why friends evolve over time. You always feel emotionally closest to those whose lives resonate with your thinking, your choices, your way of viewing things, your emotions. And the more vulnerable people can be together the more they can share experiences on a level much deeper than the surface. The level where old wounds exist and we bare open our wounds to one another and trust that the other will hold us as gently and compassionately as we hold them.

    There are many layers to our selves, and relationships will go as deep as the two individuals in question are willing to go, not just within themselves, but with each other as well. And the deeper we go, the more we find that we share in common, because beneath the surface of our personalities and preferences, lies a humanity that is universal.

    But, what is the deepest layer at the base of it all? Nothing. At the deepest level, there is only existence in its rawest unadulterated form and at that level there is no sharing because there is no separation. But you can't get to there from the surface without going through each layer and unraveling it. Or you just end up living a dichotomous life in which you are perpetually trying to reconcile the two extremes.
     
  14. NothingsPurpose

    NothingsPurpose Active Member

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    Sadness is passion directed inwardly. Kinda ironic isn't it?

    I watched a video on YouTube where this mothers child experienced his first loss; the death of a goldfish friend. She video taped herself walking to the toilet with her child & proceeded to instruct the child to flush/say goodbye to his goldfish. In this very moment he was not sad, what happened next is interesting though. As soon as the fish was flushed away the child looked up towards his mother for how to react to the situation. Guess what the mother did? She went "awwwww" in a sad monotone. As soon as the child received an indication of emotion he immediately associated the loss of his goldfish with sadness & immediately started crying.

    Sadness is taught, but that doesn't mean it isn't real. I would even go so far as to say its inherent within nature. Buffalo mourn the losses in their herd, same with lions.

    Sadness comes in many dark colors, like a dirty rainbow. Whatever the form, be it loss or self pity, the energy is very low and addictive. But as low as the emotion may feel, Its an expression of high passion actually. If you're sad about something, its because you have intense passionate feelings about it.
     
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  15. Em1

    Em1 Active Member

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    I get this... when you strip everything away you are left with nothing. But at the same time, "nothing" is the space where you actually perceive your connection to everything (like in deep meditation). Emotions are what distract you (or prevent you) from getting to that space. But the answer isn't to suppress emotions or refrain from having connections about ice cream or sadness... it's just recognizing that none of it matters. It's a 2 dimensional problem when we can perceive a third dimension. (Does that make sense??)

    I think what I was sensing by saying "there is no such thing as sadness only loss": Sadness is a perception that we use (and connect with) because it makes sense to the mind. In actuality, what we are experiencing is loss of connection with ourselves which means loss of connection to the outside (in a bigger sense). It would make sense that energy would feel low because it literally is pulling our energy (and awareness) away from that connection to everything. We strive for feelings of connection to others but in actuality, we are always connected in a deeper sense (which is what's so ironic about it).
    To build a connection with others takes time when our actual connection to others is timeless.
     
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