Bodily Depression

Discussion in 'Body' started by Viraj, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Viraj

    Viraj Member

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    Hii Guys,
    I am revisiting forum after almost one year. Last year 2015 I mostly released lot of anxiety. There is improvement in my overall state of mind but there is one problem that's really nagging me. I don't know why but I mostly feel powerless in my body. Sen refers to this as bodily depression. Its like a low state where you feel like you have no wind in your body. This bodily weakness is feeding in to my mind's depression. One logic was that I have not faced enough fear and hence I am feeling weak.
    Here is a list of what I've done to feel powerful or overcome weakness.

    1.I fought physically one on one with one of my enemy.
    2.I fought with three to four guys at a time who were bullies and was beaten by them.
    3.I pick up a fight with a petrol pump guy.
    4.Gave awkward speeches to overcome stage fright.
    5.Listened to recordings of exorcism at 3 am at night just to overcome fear.
    6.Rebelled against my parents.

    I don't know if these events are really fearful ones but for me they were fearful(me having a history of escapism).Also sometimes I really feel suicidal due to this presence of weakness in me.I have been on this journey from 2012.The storm is still not ending.Has anyone else been feeling like this.Any thoughts or advice?
     
  2. Harry

    Harry Active Member

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    The building whose foundation was weak is getting shattered. And the ego is having the fear of losing something and hence there is fear, anxiety. It's like a Tsunami. Tsunami creates havoc but the humans can only watch[ let go] the debacle taking place. Accept that natural disaster with love uncondtionally so that after once it's over and there is a serene peace, we go out once again with rigor and vigour to create our life in a new way.
     
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  3. anagum

    anagum Active Member

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    Some thoughts: events like you describe that you've done to "face" your fear, I find them pretty fearful too, but I have no desire to go and pick a physical fight with someone just to "break free" of it. I feel like what's actually going on is you haven't questioned your underlying reasoning as to why you need to break free of these feelings. Actually, I remember you talked about it some months or years ago and the answers were the same. Hence, your body is actually feeling exhausted from so much strain being put over it. There's nothing wrong with having a physically low state. I'm feeling one right now. More than doing anything to try to make yourself more brave, I feel like the answer really lies in accepting all your feelings and let them guide you towards something (or nothing). Just letting be...which I'm sure you've heard a million times already.

    I hope somebody is able to expand a bit more on this. I know how easy it is to fall under that reasoning because I've felt/done it too. But look into all the reasons why this preoccupation with "I'm a fearful me" actually is keeping you trapped from what you actually want to do or be. The mind is tricky like that. I'll pass you one of my favorite quotes.

    “We are all ordinary. We are all boring. We are all spectacular. We are all shy. We are all bold. We are all heroes. We are all helpless. It just depends on the day.” - Brad Meltzer
     
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  4. grausam

    grausam Active Member

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    Hi @Viraj


    I recall your post from back in 2014. For some reason it stood out for me and I have not forgotten it. I had/have this basic feeling you are going about it the wrong way, but I can’t for the life of me put my finger on why or what you should be doing differently.

    What puzzles me about you is that even though you have faced up to many of your fears, you still say you have this sense of powerlessness. Which makes me wonder if the fears you are trying to face up to are being generated from the same roots that mine were.

    I think this strategy of facing up to your fears is a legitimate one. I used it many times when I was younger and I often found such events to be liberating and transformative. I think the reason it worked so well for me was that the fear I was facing down was usually coming from a rather irrational part of me that I could not seem to deal with in other ways. I knew the fear was irrational in that it was dramatically out of proportion (ridiculous even) to what it was I was afraid of. Yet maddeningly, I could not reason the fear back to an appropriate scale. In the case of public speaking, once I faced up to the fear, and just about everything that could go wrong did, yet afterward the world did not come to an end, that part of me that was generating the overwhelming and unreasonable fear was more or less smashed. Other times, the progress was more measured and incremental, though noticeable and satisfying nonetheless. That said, there are practical limits to how far this approach can be taken. There is always a bigger bully, and often, such as in professional settings, you can’t go at them with your fists as that only works to their advantage.

    I don’t really know if any of this applies to your situation as it is hard to get a good read on what is at the root of your feelings of powerlessness. Ultimately, and particularly in regards to our external environment, we are often very limited in what power we can exert over circumstances and what happens to us. If there is a place where we can exert some power, it is internally in regards to our reaction to our threats and challenges. I have often found that the worst bully I have had to face in life has been myself. One part of me was feeling a certain way (afraid, sad, lonely, etc), while another part of me was chastising and bullying myself for feeling that way (“suck it up, don’t be a wimp, too bad, deal with it”). I have found that my mind can be rather masochistic that way, and can be a much tougher opponent than any external person or situation I have faced. One thing I often hear recommended, and I think it does work, is to learn to deal with that part of me that is in fear (sad/etc) with understanding and compassion rather than trying to force it to feel the way I think it should. Forcing my emotions to feel a certain way has proven to be like trying to push water up hill, and trying to suppress them usually ends in a dam burst. Usually, if I am experiencing emotions, somewhere in the mind, often in the subconscious, there is something my mind is trying to motivate me to pay attention to, think about, or act on. Sometimes it is rather irrational and can’t be understood or reasoned with, but more often, if I can understand what is at the root of it, compassion, and reason work better then brute force. Like I said, I don’t really know if any of this relates to the roots of your problem.

    Anyway, I would love to hear the particulars of how facing up to some of your fears worked out for you. Particularly your experience with forcing yourself into public speaking.


    Good luck.
     
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  5. Saraswati

    Saraswati Active Member

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    @Viraj: One thing it was helpful for me to realize is that just because I feel something, the "idea" attached to it isn't necessarily "true". The ideas that generate strong feelings are the ones we are identified with the most and ironically we use the strong feelings to reaffirm the belief even if a part of the mind is rejecting that belief if it's already programmed into your physical being then its there. The key is to understand that while you can't get rid of the feeling the idea is not necessarily true. It's made true for you by your focus/attention and hence belief in it validated by your accepting a feeling as "proof" of that idea. But that feeling could be "proof" of any myriad of ideas if you drop your current belief and choose another. There is nothing "true" about any feeling, it's just whatever idea you give it makes it true for you and generally this coincides with a story we are telling about our "selves". When a feeling is deemed undesirable, it's a sign that we should drop that idea because it's actually the idea that is creating the perpetuation of the feeling, but too often the feeling is used to affirm that the idea is "true" and thus a viscious cycle ensues. As children, being forced to adopt beliefs we did not resonate with, this created a trauma within the psyche which translates to physical discomfort one to one.

    A "child" is nothing more nor less than a submissive psyche. The physical body of an adult can hold a child psyche and vice versa. The physical body is not representative of a true child or true adult. This is why some children raised in horrible circumstances are able to move into peaceful healthy existences and some raised in apparent loving environments go on to have many problems. It is the individual psyche that "adopts" beliefs or not and the more submissive mentally one is, the more likely that an internal war will develop. This is just what has to happen however in order to fully become an "adult" psyche or a dominant psyche. It's part of the maturation process. If you see it this way, you can see how your struggles are pulling you there, albeit kicking and screaming. As much as any child body resists growing into an adult body, the mental psyche can resist maturing, sometimes for many lifetimes. But eventually all psyches mature into higher levels of wisdom.

    So you keep feeling this feeling and have this idea attached to it of "I am weak" and then you have to come up with a "solution" which is in your case to fight. But the external fighting is just desperation. Your real fight is internal and my guess is the weakness you describe is actually due to a great deal of physical tension you are holding in an attempt to suppress other feelings/thoughts that are more threatening than feeling weak. Actually whatever we most often feel is what is deemed "most acceptable" by the mind, otherwise you would not feel it all the time. It would be swept away like other emotions/thoughts. This energy you are using to suppress other ideas/thoughts is causing you to have no energy for anything else, hence you "feel weak" but the problem is actually mainly that you have a belief that you must control things and also that you are somehow defective if you don't. At this point even your "control" is not working and this is not surprising as control always, always eventually breaks down.

    The key as others here have mentioned is acceptance and letting go of ideas, I mean really letting go of them, which also means letting go of an identification of oneself as flawed,defective and weak etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
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  6. Viraj

    Viraj Member

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    Hello guys,
    Thanks for the support.It really feels nice that I can interact with people on similar journey or those who have completed the journey.
    @Harry I think I am trying to force a strong sense of self rather than allow the weak self to die away.Is that what you meant by destroying the weak foundation.
    @anagum Heyy buddy thanks for the quote.Can you share how you feel these days and how did you accept that low state in the body.Do you feel happy?The low state in my body feels like powerlessness.I have tried just accepting it or being okay with it but its still there.I dont have close friends so I feel lonely in the evening.Also the pain of depression fires up in the evening and sometimes its really uncomfortable.

    @grausam
    Hiii.I mostly faced fears related to stage fright by playing guitar in college events.I am still not comfortable but I am not awkward as well.I remember once I had a brawl with petrol pump guy and I had felt fear for 10 minutes. But after that, for half an hour I felt a sense of total power,like my powerful being showing up.Its like feeling immune to everything and feeling totally sexy and worthy.I thought I would feel the same way if I picked up a fight with anyone.So, I beat up a guy in our society who was among the group of guys who used to tease me.So three or four of them came together they beat me like s**t.But I remember not feeling powerful even after that event.I had once read an experience of a man how such kind of thing had solved his problem.However in case of me it was a dissappointment.My mind goes in fearful mode at night around 1 o clock.It mostly starts saying "lucifer lucifer" at this time. I was so fedup of it that to overcome it I listened to real recordings of exorcism of emily rose at 3amto see whats the maximum amount of fear it can produce.However that also did not solve the problem. Even nowadays my mind goes into fear mode and I have to spend sleepless nights.
    @Saraswati-I remember you and Joanna had told me not to fight with anyone. I think I will stick to that.Btw my mind feels really gloomy and depressed in the evening.Sometimez I just cant bear it.What do you think I should do.I think the depression is mostly due to loneliness. Also sometimes I suffer a lot due to a sense of worthlessnes due to the fact that I have no close friends or due to feeling sometimes a sense of vulnerability in social situations.How do you think I should deal with it.I really need a support system and I know you guys are there for me.Thanks in advance.
     
  7. Em1

    Em1 Active Member

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    Can you explain more what you mean by this? I'm not following your logic.

    "I feel powerless in my body. Sen refers to this as bodily depression. Its like a low state where you feel like you have no wind in your body. This bodily weakness is feeding in to my mind's depression. One logic was that I have not faced enough fear and hence I am feeling weak."​

    When you say you're "feeling weak" are you feeling physically weak, or emotionally/mentally weak in some way? My understanding of what Sen means by "bodily depression" is that physiological depression is separate from mental depression -
    http://www.calmdownmind.com/dealing-with-depression/

    If you're feeling physically weak, it doesn't make sense to me to "treat" it by putting yourself into fearful situations... that's like treating a broken arm by making yourself swim laps in a pool.
     
  8. Harry

    Harry Active Member

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    A child is weak and helpless but he does not feels it.Infact , he is jolly,curious abt his surroundings. He engages in exploration by diving into the unknown as he has that innate faith in himself.
    But as the child receives conditioning from his parents like --brave childs do not cry, u are a boy-be tough, such type of conditioning gets ingrained in our psyche. This self image created in childhood , I think in most of the households has to be secured subconsciously by ego and the ego tries it's best to save this image by-

    1] Bullying others
    2] Be a part of dominant group in school, society or some political party and not to forget religious groups
    3] Earning more and more money to give a sense of superiority
    4]Joining jobs and services considering not passing but prospects of power
    But if u see in all these situations, the common denominator is the fear which is deeply entrenched into your mind and hence ur actions are not out the authentic self/fearlessness but fear. A fear engraved person can be sisy or can be aggressive.
    The route to the wholesomeness or overcoming this feeling of fear is to feel vulnberable, to feel the fear. Let ur whole being jump into the valley of fear. It's like u are hanging from a tree and u are constantly being told that if u fall from the branch of tree , there is valley of death and suffering and so all ur whole we are trying to grab that branch of feeling. Just leave that branch of tree and dive in to the valley of death and u will realise that it is not the valley of death but it is theheavenly being which u were deprived by the belief infested society.
     
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  9. Viraj

    Viraj Member

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    @Em1-By powerless I mean my being feels weak.Like a low depressive state in the body where you feel vulnerable to outside influences.I am still not able to sense a space of stability outside my mind.Also mentally I feel emotional pain more profound in the evening.Currently I am just following Sen's advice where I just follow a growth routine and relaxation routine everyday,and the attitude of simplicity and ordinariness.But this constant mental and physical depression in the background is what pisses me off.I don't feel satisfied even if I do 5 hours of focussed work(In my case studying).I have been following this routine for the last 20 days.

    1.Morning Routine(7-11)-Mindfulness,Meditation(brainev)Exercise and reading positive material
    2.Afternoon(11-5)-4 hours studying,1 hour guitar practice.
    3.Evening(5-11)Watching TV serial,Video games and reading.

    In the evening loneliness sets in and I feel damn depressed and gloomy.

    @Harry-You mean to say make peace with vulnerability,right?If that's the case then most of my problem is solved.Because my only cause of concern has been this feeling of vulnerability in my being(bodily depression) and sensitivity of my mind.
     
  10. Saraswati

    Saraswati Active Member

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    @Viraj: Notice what you are telling yourself about your emotions...."I just can't bear it". This is an assumption. But is it really true? Try allowing past the idea "I can't bear it" and see what happens.

    Go deeply into your loneliness and be with it in the way you would be with a friend who was deeply lonely. It will teach you much about your self.

    You suffer because you believe you are worthless. But is that true? Examine the word worth less. Worth.....less..... Less than who or what? And who says so? Examine that. Ponder it.

    Your support system is your own mind, and as you are communicating with us on this forum, we are part of your mind. But you choose what to listen to and what not to listen to and that affects your "reality".
     
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  11. Viraj

    Viraj Member

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    Hii Guys,

    I just read Sen's post on overcoming depression.Its a clear observation done by me that,in my case it is light natured depression.All this vulnerability and sensitivity is an extension of my imbalance in light nature.Dark nature has been alien to me.Sen's pointer to overcoming this is to connect with the coldness in me.I think he means suppressing the oversensitivity and clinging to light nature.What do you say guys??Lately I had been suppressing this sensitivity automatically by exercising control and not keeping my defenses down.I felt really guilty of this as I thought I was not being myself.What do you think guys??Please help me guys....Though I have improved a lot over the year...Sometimes I still feel suicidal due to intensity of release and powerlessness.